What does it take to age well in practice—and what can younger generations learn from those who’ve gone before us? In part 2 of our conversation with Jennifer Jones and Angela Charsha-Harney, we examine the realities of care-giving, promising practices like age-friendly health systems, and the power of inter-generational connection.

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the student hosts, guests, and contributors, and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of the University of Iowa or the College of Public Health.

Lauren Lavin:

Welcome back to Plugged in to Public Health. I’m Lauren Lavin, and this is part two of our conversation on aging with Jennifer Jones from the Csomay Center for Gerontological Excellence and Angela Charsha-Harney, Associate Director of Fitness and Founder of thinkJOY.

In part one, we unpacked the myths around aging and talk about why joy is a vital part of health. In this episode, we turn to the practical side, everything from supporting caregivers and building age-friendly healthcare systems to the kinds of small but powerful moments that remind us why older adults’ voices and stories matter.

You’ll also hear Jennifer and Angela share personal stories about innovations they’ve seen, the wisdom they’ve learned from working with older adults, and why intergenerational connection might be one of the most important public health strategies we have for the future. So let’s get plugged in to public health.

At the Csomay Center, you’re engaged in transforming care for older adults. What are some promising practices or innovations that you’ve seen while you’ve been working there?

Jennifer Jones:

Okay, we’re going to talk about caregiving for a hot second. But starting this adult-child caregiver group has really opened my eyes to just kind of this hard situation family caregivers, unpaid caregivers are in. I am excited that one of our researchers, in looking at ways to lower risk reduction for dementias and Alzheimer’s is now pivoting that research into looking at the stress that’s placed upon the caregiver. And I think that’s going to be a really interesting area of study that… It is very stressful to be a caregiver. So we talk a lot about caring for the caregiver. So those are a couple of things that come to mind.

The age-friendly movement is everywhere. University of Iowa Healthcare System is an age-friendly healthcare system, which is phenomenal. We are supporting a pilot project out of the Csomay Center that’s looking at age-friendly care using the 4Ms. The first M is what matters to you. So I think about that client, Angela, that you went to that appointment with.

Angela Charsha-Harney:

Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Jones:

Did anybody stop and ask him? Did that doctor stop and say, “What matters most to you?” So that that 81-year-old could’ve said, “You know what? I don’t want to socialize. I’m 81. It’s good.”

Angela Charsha-Harney:

Yeah.

Jennifer Jones:

So the 4Ms. It’s what matters. It’s mentation, which is mental health. It’s medication. If we have to take medicine, does it align with what I said matters to me and my healthcare? And it’s about mobility. So Angela, what you’re doing with the physical fitness aspect, even teaching younger adults how to stay physically fit and able and capable definitely plays into later life into what these 4Ms are. So I’m excited to see more places adapt and adopt this age-friendly care using the 4Ms. And I think too, just talking in general about optimally aging, it’s funny how a phrase can catch on. And sometimes I walk into places, and I’ll have somebody say, “Oh, you’re the optimal aging girl.” And if that’s how I’m known, I love that.

Angela Charsha-Harney:

I love it.

Jennifer Jones:

But isn’t it changing the way people think? And I know that’s not really research, Lauren, and it’s not anything we really can put a measure on. But the more people we impact to change the way they think about aging, it improves everything about it. So I’m really proud. You know, I’m proud to be the optimal aging girl.

Angela Charsha-Harney:

You should be.

Jennifer Jones:

Right? We kind of laugh about it, but it really is… Sometimes if you can use a catchy phrase, and people start to think about something like aging differently, I’m excited about that. We’ve done a good job in that. So there are a lot of good things happening in aging. We look a lot at transition of care. That’s some place where sometimes we lose. Somebody checks out of a hospital, and they go home.

And in that transition time, do they see a fallback? And do they lose the gains that they had in the hospital? So can we improve transition of care? And again, it’s about support systems and lifting those up and finding out who those are. There are a lot of things that need work in the world of aging, but we’re touching on a lot of them and trying to make a change.

Lauren Lavin:

Yeah, I had never heard of those 4Ms before, but I wrote them down.

Jennifer Jones:

Right?

Lauren Lavin:

Because I love those.

Jennifer Jones:

Google age-friendly care. And when you look at that, you think, “Gosh, it makes so much sense.” It’s interesting to me because, again, I come back to our vision at the Csomay Center, which was established years ago. We became the Csomay Center because people had a caregiving experience. Barbara and Richard Csomay had a caregiving experience that wasn’t great, and they wanted to have impact. I think about you, Angela, having impact on people’s lives. They wanted to impact people who would be caring for older adults someday.

So in 2017, we became the Csomay Center. And here we are talking about caregiving. That’s not going to go away anytime soon, but talking about what matters most to me in my mental health, and the medications you prescribe to me, and my abilities, whatever they might be, I think it’s giving autonomy to a person. We want that. We want to be able to make our own decisions, and be the person we are, and be supported in that.

Lauren Lavin:

Yeah, absolutely. Person-centered care, which is like a big buzzword in healthcare, but I think it’s really important.

Jennifer Jones:

Yes.

Lauren Lavin:

And so starting from that spot.

Jennifer Jones:

Yes.

Lauren Lavin:

Okay. So then, Angela?

Angela Charsha-Harney:

Yes.

Lauren Lavin:

Kind of turning to your experience with thinkJOY, is there a program that you guys have done or a story that really captures the heart of your mission that you can share?

Angela Charsha-Harney:

Oh, sure. You know, I was thinking about this because we have three different things that we focus on, like I was mentioning gifting. And then, special events. And then, the Day-by-Design. I think one of my favorite events that we had was a gentleman that was living here in our community, and his wife had passed away 10 years ago, and he was in a living-assisted area, and in a wheelchair. And he didn’t have any family that was nearby, so he really hadn’t left the facility in 10 years. And he worked for the university for many, many, many years, but I learned about him, and he was an author. And I knew that, insurancewise, you will probably not be surprised that if you try to get insurance to take senior citizens out and about, that is not a worthy insurance endeavor for a nonprofit organization.

But we thought, if we can’t take him somewhere, then how do we bring joy to him? And he was a classical musician lover. And so, we brought in a woman that plays piano, incredible pianist. She wanted to give back. And she came and we had a concert of her playing for him. We purchased some books that he was an author of, and had people come for a book signing. He was 99 years old. And so he did a little book signing. And so, I think his story was one of those stories where I thought, how many other people live in this community that don’t think about those that are living without loved ones nearby or don’t have family? We have a lot of people that don’t have children, and they marry themselves maybe to their work or whatnot, but they continue to age. And so when they end up retiring, and then living in a assisted area, they don’t have family.

They don’t get visitors very often. And so, that sort of just inspired me to wonder how many other people could we bring some sort of joy to and do something that’s meaningful to them that makes them feel like they’ve been seen, maybe heard, understood, mattered, whatnot. So that’s one of my favorite things. We had a gifting opportunity where there was a caretaker, was taking care of his wife that was living with dementia. She had to leave their home to live in a living assisted memory care space. And she couldn’t take her dog because they don’t allow pets. And that is the one thing that brought her the most greatest joy. And so, we found a local youth, high school boy, that loves to take photographs. So we had a photo shoot with her doggie, and we put the photograph on a canvas for her, and had that delivered to her.

Actually, gave it to her husband to give to her as a gift for Christmas, a really nice canvas of her dog that she has up in her new apartment. And so, I just think that’s where we really want to specialize is, how do we find things that matter? And even the smallest of things like a small photo shoot does not cost us a whole lot of money, but boy does it make a huge difference to one or two people. And then, also with the people that volunteer for us. It’s so great to see them feel so good about giving back in the smallest of ways, but it brings joy to their heart that they actually helped improve somebody else’s day or made them happy. So that’s two stories that I think are wonderful. We had a Valentine’s Day party the other month around Valentine’s Day, a couple months ago. My favorite part was at the end. High school students came up to me and they asked me, “Does this living assistant area let us come and visit anytime we want or we have to sign in?”

Because they sat at a table with a woman that they just loved talking to, and it just inspired them to think like, “We could all just come and see her even once a week or once a month even. Can we do that?” And I was like, “Absolutely.” And so, a lot of times it’s more about even thinking about the joy that brings people to give back rather than the receiver of the purpose of us being there in the first place is pretty remarkable. But I think that’s one of the greatest things is people want to give back. People want to be a part of something that matters to them or matters to somebody else. And just the fact that it actually really is meaningful and it matters even if it’s just once, there’s so much pride and joy that people get. And so, giving people the opportunity to give is one of our favorite things to do.

Lauren Lavin:

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Those are such sweet stories.

Angela Charsha-Harney:

Oh, I’m glad you liked them.

Lauren Lavin:

No, and I think it, again, kind of touches on… You said you didn’t necessarily know if people were going to, I don’t know, buy into the idea that thinkJOY was a necessary-

Angela Charsha-Harney:

Right.

Lauren Lavin:

You know? Some sort of necessary nonprofit.

Angela Charsha-Harney:

Yep.

Lauren Lavin:

But I think what you explained in those stories is that there are these avenues or these needs that kind of need to be filled. Right? We can argue about need, really. But leaving your dog? I got a cat a few months ago, and the idea of leaving her behind would absolutely break my heart, right?

Angela Charsha-Harney:

Yep.

Lauren Lavin:

I can’t imagine that.

Angela Charsha-Harney:

I know.

Lauren Lavin:

And so something like that, no, insurance isn’t going to pay for that. Nope, not a medical need. But man, I’m guessing that that really impacts your health and happiness in a way that’s very tangible. You know?

Angela Charsha-Harney:

Yeah. Yeah. Jennifer heard my story when the two of us connected. And it’s so funny because Jennifer and I don’t really know each other, but boy, when we met, we’re like sisters for sure. She’s my soul sister. But when we met for the first time to talk about thinkJOY, I was telling her. When I first came up with the idea about it, people would say, “You know what? Angela, people don’t care about people that are old.” They care about childhood cancer. They care about poverty. Maybe they care about war or gun violence or whatever. But nobody really cares about the elderly, and they certainly also don’t care about joy. You know? And I just thought, what a sad reality.

Lauren Lavin:

Yeah, what a sad thing to say.

Angela Charsha-Harney:

How do we flip that script? We need to morally, socially elevate ours, the people around us, and our community to care about people no matter what age they are. So if you’re telling me that people don’t care about people getting older, well, certainly you’re going to be one of them one day, so be careful what you say. But also, how do we then change that? We need to start caring about everybody.

Lauren Lavin:

Yep. And it reminds me. So all through high school, I volunteered at, they called it the Clothes Rack Boutique. And it was this lady who collected clothes for older people, and gave them a shopping experience every other week. And so, we would go set up all these clothes in their big chapel room. And everything was a dollar and we ironed their names into it. Because if you’ve ever been to a nursing home, you know that they do [inaudible 00:13:35] laundry.

Jennifer Jones:

Yep.

Lauren Lavin:

But like you said, some of these people don’t leave. And if you don’t have family, how are you getting new clothes? You’re not.

Jennifer Jones:

Right.

Lauren Lavin:

And something that brings all of us such simple joy like going to Target, we don’t get that experience. And so it just reminded me that’s like, it wasn’t a huge ask on my part. We went for a couple of hours a week, and helped set up, and did all of this. And it was the highlight of some of these ladies weeks, every single week that we were there.

Angela Charsha-Harney:

I love that.

Lauren Lavin:

So I think it, again, highlights just it can be little things that make such a big difference and impact. I don’t know, broadly a will to live maybe.

Jennifer Jones:

Yes. Yeah.

Angela Charsha-Harney:

Or you say it, but I agree.

Jennifer Jones:

Yep.

Lauren Lavin:

Okay, so we’re going to wrap this up.

Angela Charsha-Harney:

Okay.

Lauren Lavin:

What lessons about life and leadership have you learned from working closely with older adults that you’d like to share to maybe an audience of younger adults?

Angela Charsha-Harney:

Ooh. Ooh.

Jennifer Jones:

Angela, I’m going to build upon your story about the 99-year-old who was an author.

Angela Charsha-Harney:

Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Jones:

Everybody has a story. We all have a story. And how many other older adults are in our senior living organizations, and we don’t know their stories? I’ve learned from going and sharing about the Csomay Center and some of our senior living organizations, they are so full of those experiences. And they have such amazing wisdom, and they do want an audience to share that with. They would love to have those experiences where they can visit with younger people. They just want an opportunity to tell their story. Right? We all want to be seen and heard, and it’s no different at 20 than it is at 90. We all want that opportunity to be seen and heard. So I think, yeah. I think realizing how full of experiences and wisdom our older adults are.

One of the locations I went to, I asked them, “What would you tell your 20-year-old self?” And the comments were, “Slow down. Enjoy life more. Spend more time with those people that you love because they’ll be gone.” And the other one was plan for aging because it cost to age. The cost of aging is a real thing. As you just said, Lauren, it’s all those little simple things, right? Spend time with people you really enjoy because you might not get to be together very long. Or at some point, that relationship is over. And then there was the one big thing of, “Oh, by the way. The cost of aging is real.” So plan for that. But I just thought, “Gosh, spend time with those you love. Share your stories.” How beautiful is that? It’s so simple.

Angela Charsha-Harney:

Mm-hmm.

Lauren Lavin:

Yep.

Jennifer Jones:

So simple.

Lauren Lavin:

I actually thought about that from a podcast perspective. There’s so many people, obviously… I don’t know. Celebrity older people or older people that have done something that we deem to be really incredible, those stories get featured.

Jennifer Jones:

Right.

Lauren Lavin:

But there’s so many smaller stories and lessons that I think we’re missing in our own communities. And I’ve definitely thought about how cool would a podcast be that highlights just like, I don’t know, average older, aging people and their lessons because they have just as much wisdom as I think some of the stories that get featured a little bit more prominently.

Jennifer Jones:

Here we are at the University of Iowa, and we have that phenomenal journalism school. And I think it would be a really neat project. Maybe your freshmen have to write or do an interview with an older adult. And then, they could publish that story and give that to the older adult. I think about that all the time being here on the campus with so many students, and how could we provide an opportunity for the students that would benefit the older adults that would in turn benefit the student. So I think about that a lot.

Angela Charsha-Harney:

Yeah. And I would say, what lessons about life? I think especially working with the older population, it’s the simple things in life that matter the most, for sure. That’s cliche. We hear about that all the time. But in general, we all want to be cared for and we want to care for others. And if we have the opportunity to do that, there are options and avenues all over the place to do good and see the good that’s being done. And so, I think look for the good. I think stories of the good things that are happening encourages compassion and generosity and is more likely to keep our common humanity in reality. But certainly, you get what you give.

And so I will say, definitely this opportunity in the lives that we are able to touch. We’re focused on giving, but you do get what you give. And it’s been a beautiful journey just in life in general with the work that I do. It has given me the opportunity just to be with people and really be with them. And so, that’s my gift for sure. So I think being a leader, usually I’m overseeing college students all the time. And just reminding them that they matter, and they’re seen, and they’re heard, and being a leader so that they can experience that has been one of the most beautiful gifts that I’ve had. But this nonprofit and the work with the older people so much just reminds me, you get what you give.

Lauren Lavin:

I love that. And then, finally, last question. And then, we’re done. What brings you joy in this work? So coming back to that theme of joy, that’s kind of been a constant throughout this conversation. So what brings you joy? What keeps you inspired as you move forward?

Jennifer Jones:

I think what brings me joy is the connections that we get to make. And it’s for other people. If somebody reaches out to us at the Csomay Center, and they say, “Here, I’m in this situation, and I don’t know where to turn.” And we’re able to offer three or four or five different options for them. And then, I get something back that says, “Oh, my gosh. Thank you, because this is exactly who I needed, or what I needed, or this was the answer I needed.” There’s just something, you’re like, “Oh, it feels good.” Right? It just feels good to help somebody make that connection. So I think it’s helping others make the relationships that they didn’t even know they needed to make. Making those is great.

And I think what keeps us grounded and also inspired, probably the whole concept of we are all aging. Pause and think about that. It’s heavy. Everybody’s going to become old, right? We will become older adults, and there’s a lot with that. So how can we do our very best to help people age optimally? We’re always looking for the next way to help someone, to share a message, to inspire other people to age optimally. I think sharing about someone like Angela and about thinkJOY, that is a beautiful thing for us to share. And that what inspires others. It inspires us to keep looking for the next Angela. Who else is out there that we haven’t met yet that we can share about them and what they’re doing? There are so many good people doing things in the world of aging. We just have to figure out how to raise their platform and share their message, and that’s inspiring.

Angela Charsha-Harney:

Jennifer, you’re the best. What brings me joy? I think probably making people feel like they matter. It does really bring me joy. There’s a beautiful gentleman. I don’t know him personally. He’s a author. His name’s Ross Gay, and he talks about inciting joy. You’ll have to listen to some interviews by him. But there’s a lot of people that ask him about like, “In these times, how do you write so much about joy and delights and all these sorts of things?” And he talks about how joy sometimes doesn’t necessarily mean being happy.

It’s caring for others when horrible things happen. And without the devastating pieces of life, joy sometimes doesn’t necessarily even occur. And so, it reminds us to focus on, you know? Nobody lives a life that’s just happy and joy-filled all the time. But certainly, we can find joy in being together with other people through some of the hardest times of their life. And so, for me, I think that’s when it keeps me going and inspires me is making people feel like they matter and just being with them. So of course, aging brings me joy because that means I’m alive.

Jennifer Jones:

Yes. Like, “Yay.” Just happy for that.

Angela Charsha-Harney:

Absolutely, aging brings me joy. Who would’ve said that when they were 25, for sure.

Jennifer Jones:

Right.

Angela Charsha-Harney:

But as we’re in the middle right now, we’re sort of in the middle. I’ve got college students and I have the elderly that we work with. Being in the middle, it is a beautiful place to be in. I want to age well, just like everybody else does. But I also, in life, I hope to be cared for in my days of aging. I was speaking about Ross Gay. He says, “Everything you know and love, including yourself, is dying.”

And it’s so funny that he writes about joy, but he talks about so many devastating realities. We and what we love are all dying. And if you focus on that, that sounds really horrible. But if you find joy in your days, enjoying the things that are around you and how to help people, certainly it really can be joyful. So that’s what brings me joy, Lauren.

Lauren Lavin:

I love it. What a great way to end this. I super appreciate… This is the longest one I’ve done in a long time. But thank you guys both for taking so much time out of your day to chat with us. I know I learned a lot, and I really appreciate it, and I’m sure our listeners will too.

Angela Charsha-Harney:

Thank you so much.

Jennifer Jones:

Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Angela Charsha-Harney:

We appreciate the opportunity to be together as always. And again, for interviewing us and giving us the time to speak upon these important things as well. So thank you for having us.

Lauren Lavin:

That’s it for this episode of Plugged in to Public Health. A big thank you to Jennifer and Angela for sharing their expertise, their stories, and their passion for building a healthier future for all of us. We talked about care-giving, age-friendly practices, and why joy in connection are not just nice extras, but essential parts of aging well.

This episode was hosted and written by Lauren Lavin and edited and produced by Lauren Lavin. You can learn more about the University of Iowa College of Public Health on Facebook. Our podcast is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and SoundCloud. If you enjoyed this episode and want to support our work, please share it with someone who cares about public health and aging. This episode is brought to you by the University of Iowa College of Public Health. Until next week, stay healthy, stay curious, and take care.