This is another episode in our series about topics you may not think of when you think of public health. This week Alex and Anya interview Shalisa Gladney, an educator, advocate, and doula who is passionate about community activism, consent, education, and addressing and ending violence, especially in communities of color.

Read more about Shalisa at dailyiowan.com/2020/10/25/new-af…n-virtual-format/

Find our previous episodes on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and SoundCloud.

Alex Murra:

Hello, everyone. Welcome back to From the Front Row, brought to you by the University of Iowa College of Public Health. My name is Alex Murra, and I’m joined today by Anya Morozov. If this is your first time with us, welcome. We are a student-run podcast that talks about major issues in public health and how they are relevant to anyone, both in and out of the field of public health.

Alex Murra:

Today we are talking with Shalisa Gladney. Shalisa’s a graduate at the University of Iowa, with degrees in communications and gender, women, and sexuality studies. Within her many roles as an educator, advocate, and doula, she is passionate about community activism, consent, education, and addressing and ending violence, especially in communities of color. She specializes in providing postpartum care with survivors of various forms of trauma and providing education and resources to other birth workers about the importance of incorporating consent into their practices. October is Domestic Violence Awareness Month. Today, Shalisa’s here with us to talk about her work, the importance of consent, and ways to advocate for domestic violence survivors. Welcome to the show, Shalisa.

Shalisa Gladney:

Hello. I’m excited to be here.

Alex Murra:

Wonderful. Just to get us started, we want to know a little bit about your path to where you currently are. Right now, I think your main role is that you’re a coordinator of the Afro-American Cultural Center. But some of your past experience has been with the Rape Victim Advocacy Program at the UI. Can you just tell us a little more about your path and how you ended up in your current role?

Shalisa Gladney:

Yeah. For sure. How far do you want me to go back? Just kidding. I did undergrad at the University of Iowa, where I studied gender, women, and sexuality studies, as well as communication studies. In both of those programs, I did a practicum that was centered around supporting individuals who had experienced harm or were experiencing hardship. For GWSS, my practicum was in Mitchellville at the prison that’s there. Specifically women are incarcerated there, and in the class that we did, one of the things that came up is how many of the women who are incarcerated were also survivors of sexual assault or domestic violence. As we were doing a 16-week healthy relationships course for the individuals, I think, once I started doing math, I was like, “Wait. This percentage is quite high.” I got really interested in thinking about domestic violence or sexual assault to prison pipeline, and that influenced some of the work that I did with communications studies.

Shalisa Gladney:

Once I graduated, I worked at DVIP. That’s local here in Iowa City. The Domestic Violence Intervention Program. I volunteered there. I was an intern there, and then I worked full time and then I worked on a special grant. That particular grant was addressing domestic violence. It was centered around addressing domestic violence in Black communities and then also doing some court observations, and then, from those observations, providing some education experiences for folks who worked within the justice system. So judges, lawyers, law enforcement, court clerks, you name it. If you came into the courtroom, I wanted to talk to you.

Shalisa Gladney:

When I rounded that up, I actually moved abroad for a year. I moved to Kyrgyzstan. That’s in Central Asia where the other -stans are. It’s south of Russia but north of India. While I was there, I was a social justice educator and also helped some teachers kind of … I don’t know … unionize in a way. They created their own domestic violence response team. So I gave them some of the tools that I had from the US, but then also lots of the tools that they have around community care. Then I came back and I did prevention education at RVAP, and then that moved me into my current as the coordinator for the Afro-American Cultural Center.

Anya Morozov:

Well, that is just an awesome journey. It sounds like you’ve been able to travel the world, and all along the way you’ve really positively impacted people’s lives. For our next question, we’re shifting gears a little bit. A lot of public health workers tend to deal with systemic problems that are pretty slow to change. And, especially with this pandemic, we’ve seen how a lot of it can lead to burnout. So with that in mind, how do you stay motivated and take care of your own health when you’re doing work around heavy topics like rape, domestic violence, and other forms of trauma?

Shalisa Gladney:

For sure. Thank you. I think a couple things. I’m pretty active, an able-bodied human who … I’ve played sports most of my life. My most recent … I don’t know. The thing that takes up so much of my time now is CrossFit. I’m very, very strict about going to CrossFit and when I’m going. I have also encouraged other friends to get involved with me. And so it’s like, oh, every morning at 7:00, I’ve got my little community here. That’s one way.

Shalisa Gladney:

I think another way that I take care of myself is therapy. I am a huge advocate for folks going to therapy when it’s appropriate and accessible to them. Also, creating the community that you want to be in. One of the ways that I stay engaged in this work is thinking about making the world a place that I want to live in, and by doing work that will get the world closer to this ideal space that I’d like to exist in.

Shalisa Gladney:

I think, finally, one of the reasons I keep doing the work is probably thinking about folks who aren’t invited to the tables that I get to sit at, so individuals who don’t work at an educational institution, who maybe never went to get a higher ed degree. So thinking about what are ways that I can advocate for them, even though they’re not here and may never come to the University of Iowa?

Alex Murra:

Wonderful. Thank you for that advice. I think that’s very important, especially with COVID times happening. Burnout is a big thing. I’m also a huge advocate for therapy. I think therapy is a wonderful thing. There’s so much stigma utilizing mental health services and things like that. I constantly tell people that I interact with, “If you feel like you need help, go get the help. People are there to help you.”

Alex Murra:

One of the things, when we were reading about your biography and some of the roles that you have, you work as a doula. I think a lot of people might not know what a doula is. Can you explain what a doula is, what kind of roles they have, maybe in the birthing process and the healthcare setting, or even in other places? And how have you extended your expertise in domestic violence prevention into this position?

Shalisa Gladney:

Awesome. Thank you. Yeah. I am a doula. Excuse me. If I were to describe what a doula is, specifically like a birth doula, a birth doula is someone who assists the birthing person during their pregnancy, oftentimes, during a pregnancy, of course, during their birth. And then a postpartum doula is someone who assists someone after they’ve had a birth. A couple things that I do want to mention is a doula is there to advocate for the individual who is pregnant. There’s lots of ways that that looks.

Shalisa Gladney:

Before the birth happens, it’s going to appointments with someone, and that’s going to appointments with someone whether their choice is to birth the baby at the end of it, or whether that’s to terminate their pregnancy. And so going to appointments with them to advocate on behalf of them. If you’re a birth doula and you’re attending a birth, one of the things that you do is you are there to advocate for your client, which is the individual who is pregnant. I think one thing that I often hear that is a misconception is that the doula might be there for everyone in the room, so other parents or the other support partner and the baby that will be born. That’s actually not the case. We are there to support the individual giving birth.

Shalisa Gladney:

Postpartum doulas, we often help folks after the fact. One of the things that I often do for individuals who recently had babies is I’ll stay at their house two nights a week so that they can get some sleep. And then I’m up helping the baby, either feeding them, changing them, just assisting that parent so that they … I’m sure that you all know this. After you have a child, your life, one, changes forever, even if it’s your fifth child. It’s nice to have extra support. So I really enjoy that.

Shalisa Gladney:

I also want to mention that I’m a death doula, which is related in some ways, and not. But I’m a diaspora death doula. I assist individuals with end-of-life goals or families with family members who have recently passed, and, in a very similar way, thinking of how do I center this individual who is either on their end-of-life journey or who’s recently passed? When I think of how my experience in domestic violence or sexual assault and being an advocate impacts how I show up in those settings, I really think of consent and advocacy and centering the individual. I very rarely go into that space and like, “Okay. Big picture. This is what we’ll do.” I really hone in on that individual and what they need, so safe, protected, and most comfortable.

Alex Murra:

Thank you. I really never knew anything about death doulas, so I learned something today. I have a quick followup question. Maybe for someone who this being a doula sounds like the most awesome thing ever in the world, how does someone get trained to become a doula? And then, also, how do you even find doulas? If you’re someone who is going to be in the birthing process or postpartum, how do you find a doula?

Shalisa Gladney:

Yeah. Those are two great questions. If someone is interested in becoming a doula, there are lots of ways. There are lots of ways to get trained. A couple that I would recommend, one, is DONA. I got my training through DONA. Or I would recommend that they seek out local organizations in their area that provide doula training … excuse me … and just making sure that they’re certified in a way that most fits the needs of what you’ll be providing. If you Google doula plus the city or major area you’re in, you will find that. If you go to DONA, D-O-N-A, if you go to their website, they have trainers all across the US and probably even some international ones now. You can really find a DONA trainer in most regions in the US. I found mine right here in Iowa City by way of Chicago, so that was exciting. And then I’ve done additional trainings with a smaller organization down in Saint Louis.

Shalisa Gladney:

In terms of if you want a doula, I would say something similar. I think if you’re looking for a doula in Iowa City, word of mouth is probably the best way. In my experience, there are some Facebook groups for individuals who are birthing, and oftentimes that is where I see folks asking. If you’re looking for a doula and you’re in the Iowa City area asking your midwife or the doctor who will be assisting you during your birth, asking them for any doulas that they know who have access to spaces, there are quite a few in Iowa City. I’m going to shout out some of my friends. There’s Iowa Black Doula Association, and they do amazing work and lots of education. And then there’s also an individual I know, Grace. Grace’s last name starts with an S when you’re looking for her. She is a phenomenal doula and would be my doula if I was birthing.

Shalisa Gladney:

I think that there are resources in every community that will give you access to how to become a doula and how to utilize a doula for your own birthing purposes. I do want to mention, in terms of type of doula work that I typically do, I typically do postpartum doula work, and I assist folks with individuals who are either terminating a pregnancy, had a stillbirth or a miscarriage. So those are typically the types of doula work that I do myself.

Anya Morozov:

Yeah. Well, like Alex, I really did not know that much about doulas before this conversation. So thank you for sharing all of that. I will take that with me. Getting a little more general, a lot of your work with the Afro-American Cultural Center, the Rape Victim Advocacy Program, and as a doula, seems to be focused on creating safe spaces for people. What lessons have you learned about promoting these safe spaces that current and future public health practitioners could take into their communities?

Shalisa Gladney:

Awesome. Yeah. I think the thing that comes to mind first is thinking about letting whatever the community is decide what safety and safe means to them. I think of when I was in Kyrgyzstan. I came with all these skills, ready to save the world. One of the things that I needed to do while I was there is realize that this country has been around for much longer than I’ve been alive, for starters, and that they’ve been keeping themselves safe this entire time. So they actually already have the tools. I don’t have to go in and save them. I maybe can introduce them to some new ideas or some things, some different language. But actually, most communities have survived. That’s why we’re all here today.

Shalisa Gladney:

I think that’s something that I have to constantly remind myself, even in the work that I do at the Afro House. I’ve got all these cool ideas, but I’m not going to tell you all when I graduated. So the current students need something probably different than what I needed when I was here. So really asking them what do they need? What are they seeking? And not asking them because I need to check off a box, but really asking them because I’m invested in making this campus a better place for them.

Shalisa Gladney:

I think that I’ll just wrap up by saying something along the lines of not assuming that I know what’s best for them, for any particular group. I only know what’s best for me. Even though I’m a part of the Black community here on campus, that does not mean that I know everything that’s best for Black students here on campus. So making sure that I’m bringing them into the fold, especially when we think more broadly, like people of color. Folks will ask, “Well, what do people …” I’m like, “Well, I’m not sure. But this is what I like.” So just making sure that we’re asking folks what they need and/or what they desire, especially when we’re talking about creating safe spaces.

Alex Murra:

Yes. I think you bring a really important topic. Not just in public health, but in a lot of social work right now, we see a lot of racial disparities coming up. It’s really easy, I think, for people to start to fall into that savior mentality, and that’s a very dangerous thing. We want to make sure that we are empowering the vulnerable communities that we do want to help out. So I think you stated everything perfectly.

Alex Murra:

Talking also about some more recent events, we’ve seen lots of discussions about consent and then also rape culture in the media. For myself, I know that you can go on TikTok, for example, and there have been lots of videos of the protests about rape survivors on college campuses. Thinking about this topic of consent, what exactly does it mean? Why is it important? And then, also, is consent just relevant in a sexual context, or is consent applicable to almost everything in everyday life?

Shalisa Gladney:

Thank you. I think a couple things come up for me. One, there’s several questions in there, so I’m going to try to make sure I answer all of them. If I think about what is consent, very plainly, consent is very simple and also not. It’s very simple in it’s an agreement to engage in an act. In this case, it’s a sexual act, regardless of what kind of sexual act it is. But I think some things to remember in terms of what needs to be addressed when thinking about consent is, one, that consent is active. If I said yes to something yesterday, that does not mean that I mean yes to something today, in anything. A very easy example is that I’m picky about eating meat. Some days I feel like a carnivore, and other days I’m like a vegan. It’s really just depending on what the weather’s like and how I’m feeling that day. Just because I want something today or wanted something yesterday does not mean that I’m giving consent to it today. And that’s definitely the case in sexual spaces.

Shalisa Gladney:

Also, it’s based on equal power. When I say equal power, making sure the power dynamics are addressed. Power dynamics show up in all kinds of ways and maybe is something that I realize folks struggle the most with in trying to figure out what it means. But a power dynamic could be someone over the age of 18 and someone under the age of 18. It could be an older family member and a younger child. It could be a professor and a student. One of the individuals has more power than the other person regardless. I think of just growing up with my mom. If my mom told me to do something, I just had to do it. The older you get, the more you’ll go back and forth. But, as a kid, if Mom says, “Put this on. We’re leaving at this time,” that’s what you do. But we do that because there’s a power differential. There’s very few times where I was like, “No, Mom. We’re doing this.” That’s just not a thing that happens.

Shalisa Gladney:

The other thing is that it’s a choice. A really good example of this is that I remember being a kid and getting close to the weekend. It’s Friday. I want to hang out with my friends, and my mom would ask me a question like, “You’re going to clean your room, though, right?” And there’s just an implied answer of yes. That is not an option. That’s not a choice. A choice means that there needs to be the option for someone to say no without there being negative consequences, like, oh, if you say no, I’m never talking to you again. If you say no, I’m going to be really upset, or my feelings would be hurt. There’s got to be the option for someone to say no and there not be any negative repercussions.

Shalisa Gladney:

And then four is that it’s a process. I could want something earlier in the week and not want it later in the week. I could, in one relationship, allow X, Y, and Z, and in another relationship, only want X. So just knowing that it’s a process and that it can change over time is the … Those would be the four things that I think you should know about consent just very basically. Why is it important? I think, again, very simply put, it’s important because we all deserve to live in a world that is safe for us and that like we feel like we can show up as our authentic selves. Very basically put, having consent, especially in all spaces, really makes it where we can all show up as our best selves.

Shalisa Gladney:

Is consent relevant in just sexual spaces? No. I think that consent should be used in all spaces. When I think about at work, before I go into my colleague’s office, asking them if it’s okay before I step in their office. If I need to talk, process some difficult advocacy that I just went on or difficult birth that I just experienced with someone, before I ask one of my colleagues or before I’m just like, “Ugh, here’s all this stuff,” I’m asking them, like, “Hey, do you have the capacity to take on what I need to process this really challenging experience? Do you have space for that?”

Shalisa Gladney:

When I think about medical spaces, before touching someone’s body, before giving them unsolicited medical advice, there’s some medical advice that I know is required, that I need to give you this. But also, if it is unsolicited, thinking about what that looks like when you’re giving them that information, like, hey, would you like to know about these other options that are not part of your care plan?

Shalisa Gladney:

I think one of the ways that we can all start this today is if you have younger siblings or if you have children, thinking about before just hugging them, asking them a very simple … Would you like a hug? Can I hug you? Even if they’re in distress, asking them the question and then giving them the space to verbally say what they need or want. I think I got them all.

Anya Morozov:

Yes, I think you did get them all. Again, that was just really good advice. I like the idea of thinking about consent as a dynamic process that you have to keep checking in with yourself. It’s not like once you have it, you’re good. It’s a good reminder to just keep checking in about consent. Since this month is Domestic Violence Awareness Month, we wanted to ask you, what can we do as public health professionals or as community members to become better advocates for domestic violence survivors? Are there any existing initiatives for domestic violence survivors that you’d like to highlight?

Shalisa Gladney:

Yeah. I think first, for starters, to educate yourself, especially on the communities that you’re in. What are the domestic violence or domestic abuse resources in our area? Maybe if there are any statistics that are out there, what does that look like in our area? If there are ways for someone to volunteer, when I think of acquiring any of these, especially the resources, therefore, if you happen to be engaging with someone who needs access to these resources, you’re not fumbling to try to get these later. You already know, oh, we have a local domestic violence shelter here. They also provide outreach. Just the different tiers of things that folks could potentially need.

Shalisa Gladney:

I would also say to support local efforts. If there is a domestic violence shelter in your area or any services that they provide, think about ways that you could support them directly and indirectly. Especially when I think of October being Domestic Violence Awareness Month, thinking of what are some of the events and initiatives that they have going on? I know one of the things that the Domestic Violence Intervention Program has every October is Shop for Shelter, and it’s a donation drive typically at the local Hy-Vees. That gets them their food for almost the entire year, so it’s a very important event for them. Sometimes getting volunteers for that is important, so then also just getting folks to donate to that. And it could be one thing or it can be 10 things. It could be on a budget of one dollar to a couple dollars or, if you have more money to spend and you can spend 20, 30, 40 bucks, that’s also very helpful.

Shalisa Gladney:

Yeah. One of the questions that I always ask when this question is asked of me, one of the things that I encourage folks to think about is to think about how they’ve been involved either directly or indirectly in local DV or SA efforts. If the answer is not very active, maybe making it a goal for yourself to become active in one way or another, even if a start is just educating yourself on what’s available. I think folks are often very surprised to find out all of the services that Domestic Violence Intervention Program actually offers. I think another way to, while it feels indirectly, it directly supports them, is to really advocate on behalf of them with local legislators. Even on the national level, they consistently are the first to get cut when it comes to finances. So thinking of just making sure that the individuals that you are supporting are also the individuals that you are supporting back, ending domestic violence and addressing harm that happens to folks in your community.

Alex Murra:

Thank you for all that advice on how to be a good advocate. I think being an advocate’s hard. I mean, we have to learn a lot, and you never really stop learning. You always can figure out different ways to be better and help out more efficiently. To finish off, this is a question that we ask all of our guests that come on to the podcast. Sometimes I’ve heard that, ah, Alex, why are you asking me this kind of question? So the question is what is one thing that you thought you knew but were later wrong about?

Shalisa Gladney:

Yeah. I think mine would be that I could save the world. While I’ve not technically given up on that, I think I just shifted my focus. Maybe I cannot save the world, but I can definitely change it and make it a better place in that I’m not thinking of it in this really big picture, but some days, I’m just like, “What can I do today that will positively impact one person’s life today which is part of this world?” When I think of it just in that way, like what’s one thing I can do today to make the world a better place, and focusing on that, then, when I think about the bigger picture, it seems a little more attainable. It’s like, well, I’m doing what I can to make this world the best that it can be. While that’s not always in just the work that I do, you can do that in lots of ways.

Shalisa Gladney:

I think, definitely, younger me was like, “I’m going to save the world. I’m going to end violence in my lifetime.” I’m like, “Okay. Maybe I won’t be the individual who ends it. But I will go on podcasts with other educators to talk about the things that I do and ways that we can all get involved. I will engage with my students, engage my students in conversations around harm reduction, engage with community members or local politicians around what are ways that you’re going to make sure that those who are most vulnerable in our communities are protected?” Those are just a couple of the ways that I’ve combated that saviorism or the notion to save the world.

Alex Murra:

Yes. I think that’s really great advice to end on, especially on a topic that’s really heavy. Sometimes in public health, we have these huge, huge problems. And yes, I also have fallen victim to that kind of thinking before, too.

Anya Morozov:

Me, too.

Alex Murra:

Shalisa, I wanted to first say thank you so much for all the hard work that you do as being an advocate for domestic violence and helping out people. And then, also, just another thank you again for coming on to the podcast. I know that we had such a great time talking with you. So thank you.

Shalisa Gladney:

Thank you for having me. It’s been a blast.

Anya Morozov:

That’s it for our episode this week. Big thanks to Shalisa Gladney for coming on with us today. This episode was hosted and written by Alex Murra and Anya Morozov, and edited and produced by Alex Murra. You can learn more about the University of Iowa College of Public Health on Facebook. Our podcast is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and SoundCloud. If you enjoyed this episode and would like to help support the podcast, please share it with your colleagues. Our team can be reached at CPH-GradAmbassador@UIowa.edu. This episode was brought to you by the University of Iowa College of Public Health. Stay happy, stay healthy, and keep learning.